Rebecca Lucy Taylor, professionally known as Self Esteem, is tucked into a dark corner of a rehearsal studio in London. She’s on a brief break from getting a few iterations of her live show together, one for her tour dates in the UK, another for a handful of shows in the U.S., including an appearance at SXSW for FLOODfest. Touring North America is not a new thing for Taylor—she did it a number of times with her former band, Slow Club. But it’s a very different proposition doing it on her own, in support of her second solo album, Prioritise Pleasure. Says Taylor, “I'm really excited to have the experience on my terms with my people and doing what I want to rather than interpreting other men's work.”
Taylor took a leap of faith launching her career as a pop star at the age of 30 with her 2019 debut solo album Compliments Please. But her messages were coming through loud and clear. Her album titles are like mantras, both for herself and for her growing audience with whom she resonates. In the many articles written about her, her lyrics are used in equal ratio to quotes from the outspoken, articulate artist. “She was always like that,” says Johan Hugo, who produced both of Taylor’s albums. “She was so stifled in her old band. She had this pent-up need to be honest. No one else could write with her.”
Her eloquence earned Taylor a nomination for Best New Artist at this year’s Brit Awards—quite a feat at 35 years of age, and during her second go-around as an artist. But it feels like the first time for Taylor, who’s finally speaking her truth with zero filter.
It must have been scary to put out your first solo album, which was a major departure from your previous musical output.
I was really scared of making my own record—not because of the work, but because of nasty people. When I made the first album, I felt like I was finally saying what I needed to. But when I think about it now, I did it under the guise of a different narrative. Songs that sound like they're about lovers aren’t, but I'm getting through my frustrations by putting them into a scenario where I mix a few feelings and a few people into one narrative. I did that in order to be safe. I did the first album with a lot more fear in my heart.
“I’m just existing and being unapologetic about it and seeing what happens. The fact that people think I’m radical makes me want to carry on, because I don’t feel radical at all. This is my life.”
What changed between the first and second album that made you come into your voice?
The first album, I needed me as a solo artist to work, so I didn't have to go back to being in a band, or to get a job. This album, I cared a lot less about what happened with it. If it doesn't work, fine, I can still gig, just on a small scale. I made everything smaller, because I realize I'm an artist, and that's what I've got to do. Being a lot less pressured really worked. The second I stopped wanting to be big and busy all the time, it led to opportunities.
It’s a common thing for artists to sacrifice parts of their life in order to be able to do art.
It became my only option. I was in male bands for ten years. That took my whole twenties, poof, gone for this cause that ultimately made me quite unhappy. I used to want to be a global star. I wanted to be an actress. I wanted to walk red carpets and have photoshoots. Now that I have that, I realize it's the music that I love. I think I used to want it so bad because that meant I was somebody. But now, over the last 18 months, I’ve realized I’m happiest when I'm in the studio, when I'm planning the artwork, the shows. That needs to be successful, because the more successful I am, the longer I get to do it. I'm going to keep my life small because I want to do it for as long as possible.
You’ve taken on agism—which is particularly prevalent in music—and from the looks on it, you’ve conquered it.
It's definitely my next thing to bang my drum about. It’s this mass con that aging is embarrassing or something when it's the only absolute certainty we have. I don't get the logic of it. I'm already experiencing not getting certain opportunities. But me being here, really owning it, it's fucking cool that I'm not 20 and I'm not skinny. That’s important right now. That's political, actually. I struggle with it, but I refuse to leave this planet without having made people accept it—and by “accept it,” I mean “have to see it.” I'm just existing and being unapologetic about it and seeing what happens. The fact that people think I’m radical makes me want to carry on, because I don’t feel radical at all. This is my life.
“There’s such an obsession with perfection, with pop stars especially. I’m interested in trying to get through the door and then giving the horrifying truth: We are all disgusting, as well as being amazing.”
One of the things you’ve said repeatedly is how you’re delivering your message using pop music as your Trojan Horse, which is just genius.
One of my videos is me playing the drums in a bra, my boobs oiled up. I knew that men would watch it because of that, but they have to hear what it's saying, which is “fuck you.” I love to do really sexy stuff with one thing not OK, so they just can’t wank to it. I want to do the Madonna Sex book kind of thing, but everything's just a bit gross. There’s such an obsession with perfection, with pop stars especially. I'm interested in trying to get through the door and then giving the horrifying truth: We are all disgusting, as well as being amazing.
By recreating Britney Spears’ 1999 Rolling Stone cover for NME, you also pointed out everything that was wrong with the original—which, as iconic as it is, also has a lot of issues.
It’s such a hard road to understand all that. The things about my teens or my twenties that felt helpful to my plight of wishing for a boyfriend or a girlfriend, all of it was not OK. It's wrong, and damaging, and scary. Everyone's just a product of what happened to them. I got away with a lot, but it's a fucking scary world. I look out at my gigs and see these women dating their thumbs off on apps, desperate to meet someone. I'm obsessed with helping people feel OK about being alone. Putting up with anything just so you aren’t alone gets me so agitated because I used to be like that. I used to do whatever it took to not get dumped because, like most women, I'm extremely resilient to bullshit and putting up with stuff and thriving in an environment that isn’t made for me. I'm too good at that. In the wrong hands, especially romantically, I would really lose myself, and that's another reason why I'm on this soapbox and why I'm doing what I'm doing, because I refuse to do that anymore. It's not fucking fair.
What does feminism mean to you?
It's almost like deep logic that I'm only just getting access to. I was complicit and enabled the sexism that I've experienced in my life. What I'm doing now is a display of the penny dropping slowly for me. It's how things should be, and I had no idea because it was in everyone's best interest to pull as many layers of wool over my eyes.
In England we struggle with men-are-bad feminism. I'm more interested in uncovering the truth of it and together figuring out how to change it. I think the best way to do that is to be honest about what I did do and what I didn't realize and how behaviors have enabled sexism in my life. What I do now is give anyone else who hasn't been able to move the wool yet some very simple, logical comparisons to shed a light on it.
“I was complicit and enabled the sexism that I’ve experienced in my life. What I’m doing now is a display of the penny dropping slowly for me. It's how things should be, and I had no idea because it was in everyone’s best interest to pull as many layers of wool over my eyes.”
What do you want for yourself professionally?
I want to make 20 records. I want to be like Kate Bush, Peter Gabriel, U fucking 2. I want each thing to have its own world that it lives in. I'm really interested in theater and mixing those things in. I'm really working my tits off to prove I’m good enough, and because I act and write and direct as well, I’m working this hard so I can choose whatever medium I want to, to say what I assume I want to say. My vision is to learn as much as I can, make as much as I can. I have to be careful of thinking, “Why do I think I'm so special that I have to say what I think all the time?” But that’s my mum talking. That’s counterproductive, because most of the time, you're sharing your experience in the hope that other people find comfort in it or get inspired by it or it’s saying something. I'm giving up feeling like I’m a narcissist. I have to show everyone myself and the thinking behind it, what I want and what I feel and what I want to change. It will be very interesting to see the album I make when I'm 50. FL
