Indie-pop songwriter Anya Marina and comedian Nikki Glaser go way back. Maybe not as far back as high school, when the latter coined the term “couhl”—which perhaps indirectly helped shape the former’s new album Asteroid—but their 12-year friendship has certainly helped both artists approach their respective crafts more confidently due to the support and feedback they exchange within and beyond their WhatsApp group chat.
Marina and Glaser are currently booked on a series of shows together, with the initial meetup proving the opportune moment for Nikki to grill Anya about the new LP and, more broadly, how writing for herself for the first time (rather than aiming to impress the couhl kids) helped make Asteroid the engaging listen it is, and how exchanging romantic songs with her partner Matt Pond is something she no longer takes for granted.
With their joint tour continuing through next year, find a transcript of their conversation below. You can check out their full set of dates here.
photo by Matt Pond
Nikki Glaser: First off, is there anything you want to say?
Anya Marina: Let’s just do anything we fucking want.
Nikki: Oh my God, this is going to be wild [laughs]. OK, first off, who is this album for?
Anya: It’s for you. It’s for women. I want people who like me to have this, and if I find some new fans along the way, great. But I’m not going for the people I used to go for anymore. I’m not going for the unavailable couhl people.
Nikki: I wonder how you’re gonna spell “couhl” in this article.
Anya: [Laughs] I will specify that “couhl” is a word that Nikki coined in high school with her high school girlfriends, which basically just means “pretentious.”
Nikki: Like, “pick-me girl.” Like, trying to be cool. Like, being inauthentic and deliberate about trying to gain people’s approval, and doing it in a way that’s not sly. Being couhl is being overt—you know, the guy that, like, peels out of a parking lot. But yeah, I get what you’re saying. This album isn’t you trying to sound like what you think people want you to sound like. It’s just very you. You just did exactly what you wanted to do.
Anya: Yeah. I wanted to make something that I’d want to listen to. And also something that scared me a little bit. I thought, “Nobody’s going to want to hear a weird jazz song [“Asteroid”] as an opener,” but then I thought, “I love this song and it feels the most personal to me.” And when I was sequencing, I was thinking, “This has to be the opener, because it sets the tone for all these songs.” I wrote a ton of songs for this. I didn’t know what record I was making. And then the ones that were kind of popping out as my favorites, I’d notice there were a lot of themes about outer space, asteroids, droids; existential stuff like the planet dying, mortality, extinction; themes about growing up, being a late bloomer, childhood, girls, high school, adolescence—it’s basically a snapshot of my life. Aside from “Asteroid” being a strong visual image and word, I wanted to open the album with “Asteroid” because the song is about someone who’s kind of at the end of their rope, going out into nature, laying down in a field, staring up at the stars, waiting for an asteroid to hit.
Nikki: So did you begin writing that song as you were lying in a field trying to avoid a conflict in your life?
Anya: I don’t know if I ever actually laid down. I mean, I’m sure I did when I was a child. I think I actually slammed the door of my current home and was walking toward a bus stop after an argument with, you know, a stupid bag packed, like, “I’m going to New York City!”
Nikki: Oh my God, this is so…immature! It’s exactly like the story that everyone has when they’re, like, six or seven where they pack up their things and do this big, “I’m going to move away and see if you come after me” thing.
Anya: It was as if I had bindle! Like when I was a little kid I had a bindle on a stick and I ran away from home and my parents did not notice. Classic.
Nikki: Yeah, we all did that. But it’s just so funny to do that as an adult, and also very vulnerable to talk about something like that. I just saw a TikTok yesterday where Adele was saying, “I can’t write songs for TikTok, and I’m not going to try, and to be honest with you, I’m going to make songs for me and for people who’ve lived as much life as I have.” She wants to write music for people who’ve gone to therapy in their thirties and forties and who’ve been through as much life as she has. It kind of reminded me of what you were saying.
“I’m no longer invested in being liked at all costs. I think that’s healthy, because I really spent a lot of time in my thirties really wanting to be accepted by a group that was just never going to accept me.” — Anya Marina
Anya: I’m no longer invested in being liked at all costs. I think that’s healthy, because I really spent a lot of time in my thirties really wanting to be accepted by a group that was just never going to accept me. And it’s so liberating to know I don’t need that. Also, I don’t want to look back on my life and whatever I’ve created and cringe, which I’ve definitely done. I’ve made songs that I’m fine never hearing again.
Nikki: Does a song come to mind for you? Not to throw your art under the bus, but I think that’s interesting. I feel this way about jokes that I’ve written, too, where I’m just like, “Oh my God, if that ever resurfaced or if I ever were forced to tell it again, I’d die.”
Anya: I never publish the really cringe-worthy ones, but there’s stuff I’ve published that I’m fine just leaving as something that somebody plays at home on their stereo—I’m never going to play it live. I look back on those writing sessions and I’m like, “Even though, sonically, that’s really great and beautiful, it just doesn’t…touch me.” Maybe I let somebody else write a lot of the lyrics or the parts on that one, and I kind of regret that. And sometimes those songs are other people’s favorites, and that’s fine. But it just doesn’t mean a lot to me.
photo by Jesse Dufault
Nikki: What’s been your favorite piece of feedback from the new album?
Anya: Probably that people really like “Asteroid,” because it’s slow and it’s so out of left field—it’s got some bossa nova, “Girl From Ipanema” in there. I found it surprising that people liked that. I got so many men texting me privately—friends of mine—that said, “God, this really hit me hard.” Or like, one friend did a wellness check on me, concerned about my mental health?! [Laughs.] I was like, “I’m fine, sir, I think you’re projecting.” But yeah, that means a lot.
Nikki: That’s the best when you have something that you put out that you go, “This is kind of just for me, and I know most people probably aren’t going to like it,” and then that’s the one that resonates with them.
“It’s the best when you have something that you put out that you go, ‘This is kind of just for me, and I know most people probably aren’t going to like it,’ and then that’s the one that resonates.” — Nikki Glaser
Anya: Do you have that with jokes?
Nikki: Yeah. I’ll be writing with people, and no one else is crazy about it, but you know, it’s my project, so I get to say what finally makes it in. I had a line last week in this thing I did where we were kind of roasting this guy based on what he looks like—it wasn’t really mean, but he kind of looked like the older brother from Home Improvement. I didn’t even write the joke, but [one of my writers] was like, “It’d be funny to say about this guy: ‘I’m just glad the older brother from Home Improvement is doing so well.’ And I just loved the sentiment of it, because it seemed sweet that I would be wishing Zachery Ty Bryan—who’s dealt with some DUI stuff—well. It just felt tonally perfect to me, but it wasn’t, like, a slam dunk of a really hard punchline. And if you don’t know Home Improvement, you don’t know that reference. But so many people were alive when Home Improvement was on, and we do remember the older brother. He still pops up in the news when he gets into like, you know, aggravated assault. No one else in the room wanted the joke to stay. Even the person that wrote it didn’t want it.
But that happens all the time. And I think it’s just a reminder to trust your gut. But also, your gut can completely betray you. When you collaborate, it’s easy to put your trust in other people that you probably find more talented than you in certain areas. But there’s something in you that thinks, “I would be sad if this didn’t make it.” When even one person is like, “That was my favorite,” you think, “Yes, it was worth it!”
Anya: Yeah, exactly.
Nikki: I feel like with music more than comedy, it can just be so emotionally vulnerable to reveal something you might not be showing on the surface. I’m wondering about songs like “London Blues” that you wrote for your partner, Matt. When you play these for him, do the people involved in these storylines ever reach out to you afterward?
Anya: Not yet. [Laughs.] I mean, hopefully, if they ever ask me about it, they can handle my response, which is that these songs are all written from a place of love. I don’t throw anybody under the bus. Each song is just a snapshot in time, anyway, and it’s cathartic for me, so I have to include it. When I write about these things, something gets transformed. As you probably know, too, with writing jokes, sometimes when you take ownership of something difficult by making it into art, it doesn’t sting as much anymore. It almost feels beautiful. So this negative feeling that I had, now that it’s in a song, all of a sudden it’s like a beautiful little gem that I can hold onto.
“Sometimes when you take ownership of something difficult by making it into art, it doesn’t sting as much anymore. It almost feels beautiful.” — Anya Marina
Nikki: If I were to write a love song, I’d want my partner to hear it. I’d want to play it for them and then have them go, “Oh, babe!” and then run up and hug me, and be like, “I love you so much, too!”
Anya: [Laughs.]
Nikki: Do you have that moment? I mean, Matt is also a musician, so he’s writing songs about you. And I’ve also asked you this when he’s written a song about you. I’ll say, “Oh my God, this guy is so obsessed with you,” and you’re like, “Oh, really? That’s just his new single! Check it out.” And I’m like, “What the fuck? I can’t believe someone wrote these words about you. Like, it feels like…a tribute!”
Anya: [Laughs.]
Nikki: Do you guys ever privately talk about the meaning behind these love songs to each other? Are you guys maybe more focused on the logistics and less involved in the poetry of it? What happens when you write a love song for someone you sleep next to and then you ask them, “Can you check out the drums on this?” But you’re expressing deep feelings that you probably haven’t articulated since your vows?!
Anya I mean, when he wrote “A Scene That Will Never Die,” I was floored. That song is so beautiful and it’s also pretty much like a diary of us getting together. So that was probably the pinnacle of when a love song also corresponds to your feelings, and we were able to talk about it. That was the best thing I’ve ever received in my life. But I think you guys helped me see that—it wasn’t until our Girls Chat group we have on WhatsApp was like, “This is insane, Anya” that I really recognized how special it was. So sometimes it takes your friends to show you. But literally the other day he asked me to listen to a mix of a song and we got in some little tiff about it, and then I was laughing later because the song is about how much he loves me—yet we’re arguing about whether the vocals are mixed too loud or not.
Nikki: That’s so funny. It’s such an interesting dynamic that I’ve always been fascinated by.
Anya: But no, whatever messages I’m trying to communicate to him through my songs have totally gone over his head, Nikki.
Nikki: [Laughs.] OK, that’s the answer to my question. Oh, "Beautiful and Stoned”—why did you write that about me?
“What happens when you write a love song for someone you sleep next to and then you ask them, ‘Can you check out the drums on this?’” — Nikki Glaser
Anya [Laughs.] Actually, one of the characters in the song is about a very wealthy and successful male comedian that you know. But I just put him in because I needed a character in the song who’s wealthy and successful, but lonely. The song was written when I was staying in Los Angeles and I was walking down the hill every morning to Starbucks. And every day I’d walk by this homeless woman and she’d smile at me and she was so beautiful, and she had dirt on her face…
Nikki: That was spray tan.
Anya: [Laughs.] She was so happy. But I was walking by all these artificial lawns and insanely opulent homes probably filled with sad people. And I just started thinking about New York versus LA and how happy I am in New York, but also how much I miss California. I grew up in Northern California, but as much as I love the foliage, the smells, the air, and all the stuff about LA that’s so beautiful, there’s so much wealth and so much disparity between the haves and the have-nots. And we’re living in this time where everything is on fire. Everywhere. Not just LA. So it’s basically an answer to people who are like, “Why don’t you move back to LA?”
Nikki: What comes to mind for you on this album of some of the lyrics you thought were great?
Anya: Probably in “London Blues”: “Ever since I learned that love could be forsaken, I’ve been letting go of anything worth taking.” I also like the line that opens the album: “I’ve tried to fix myself, straighten out the bumps, and flatten where I’m bent, heal the parts that needed help, I have tried to fix myself.” I just like it because it’s true—you’ve known me for 12 years, and I’ve been working on myself in therapy or in some way the whole time.
Nikki: And that you’re still the girl with a bindle stick at a bus stop looking behind her, waiting for her husband to come out and say, “Get back in here!” [Both laugh.]
Anya: I’m also really proud of “Nothing Lasts,” because I wanted to write a song that was a lot like my song “Shut Up,” which is a little more spoken, and it just crams so many real-life events from my personal life.
Nikki: To close out, I’m dying to know the funniest thing your mom has said about the album. I just want readers to picture a sweet, high-pitched lullaby—a Russian woman’s accent, like the way your mom talks—so lilting and touching and gentle.
Anya: Well, she hates that there’s a song titled “Girl Shit” on the album. I was like “Mom, it’s not about girls shitting—it’s slang.” She also said, “Your voice is like a delicate flower.”
Nikki: It is like a delicate flower!
Anya: That’s why I’m taking voice lessons.
Nikki: Your vocals are so insane on this. They come through more than on any other album. It’s the essence of a vocally forward album.
Anya: I started taking voice lessons right before recording this album, in huge part due to you starting to take voice lessons. And I saw how quickly you not only completely mastered the guitar, but then you also developed your already-strong voice into something really great and versatile. Just seeing your progress inspired me to start taking lessons, and I just always thought, “This is the voice I have, it doesn’t have much more range than this, and I just have to embrace it.” I started gaining more confidence. I think you can really hear that on the album.
Nikki: It sounds richer and stronger and louder, while at the same time being the voice of an angel.
Anya: Thanks, my babe. You’re so sweet. So yeah, that’s in huge part thanks to you. Also, thanks to you for starting our Girls Chat. Because had I not shared a bunch of songs with you guys and had an audience of close friends to share it with, I probably wouldn’t have even made this album, honestly, and probably wouldn’t have finished it as fast as I did. So it was great to have all of your feedback.
Nikki: It was so fun to watch the process and watch it come together. And I’m so proud of you, and I’m so excited about what becomes of this and what it leads to. It just feels like the beginning of something big for you and a career that’s been already so vast and varied. It’s exciting and inspiring. And I love you. Anya: I love you so much. This was awesome. Thank you. You’re the best. FL
photo by Matt Pond
