If you read our 2023 feature on the alt-superstar Mantra of the Cosmos project with members of Happy Mondays and Oasis, you know that we love Zak Starkey—from his approach to rhythm to his free-flowing conversation. And if you follow all-things Zak, you also know that the son of Beatles drummer Ringo Starr has been in the news for his forever-shifting gig with The Who (now on their supposed final tour) and for new Mantra of the Cosmos tracks with Noel Gallagher (“Domino Bones”) and fellow Beatles sons James McCartney and Sean Ono Lennon (“Rip Off”). Plainly and simply, if anyone had a busy second half of June, it was Zak Starkey.
We caught up with Starkey again to chat about this list of assignations, acid grooves, bad Who vibes, good Beatles stuff, and beyond.
Mantra of the Cosmos
When we spoke about the formation of Mantra of the Cosmos, you called it “a modern-day Hawkwind with freak beat poetry and something psychedelic.” Have you achieved that mission statement?
Pretty much. A lot [of our unreleased tracks] are 11 minutes long and like Hawkwind because of that, and are more political than they are space-rock.
Is that political weight due to Shaun Ryder’s influence?
It’s been pretty much down to Shaun and I, as Andy [Bell]’s been busy having a #1 record with Ride. Shaun’s poetry is all about whatever he observes, whatever he sees on TV—it just comes out in his ADHD beat poetry.
Are you and Mantra any closer to a full album’s finish?
Most of it’s mixed. It’ll probably be a double album, it’s so long. The way things go today is you put it out a track at a time. You make an album as a piece of art with the tiny little gap between each track that has potential to steer how the next track will kick off. That has to come out perfectly—there’s no art form to just placing the tracks how you release them. I want them to have a correct order. Those gaps are so important, down to sevenths and eights of a second.
For “Domino Bones,” you worked with Noel Gallagher. Did he call you?
Noel had a track he did with Shaun that didn’t fit his band. He asked, if he gave me the track, maybe it’s something that would fit with Mantra, as the vocals were more hip-hop than what fit his High Flying Birds. I just stripped Noel’s music off, took one piece of Shaun’s vocals up, played drums on it until I had something that sounded like Run-D.M.C., and built more music around that. Then I got Noel back in and came up with the piano part, and rebuilt the whole thing. Like a remix, only without any of his music. With all the guitars and drums that we added, it may even sound more Beasties than Run-D.M.C.
How did “Rip Off” come together, considering its theme and team?
I’d been communicating with James and Sean a lot since we hung out the last time The Who were in New York, like, two years ago. Me, Sshh [Liguz], and our daughter Lena hung out with them, visited the Dakota, which was a truly emotional experience to be in a place so filled with love. I had the track for “Rip Off,” the title, some lyrics, and other ideas. I sent them to Sean, who added some absolutely crazy John Carpenter–like synth parts, which I really was not expecting. Then he added the trippy chorus vocal. Once I got that back, I said to James to come down and to sing the track, which is stunning in his lyrics and the power of his voice. His voice has this laser-beam precision to it; it’s absolutely amazing.
I wouldn’t have guessed that that was them if I didn’t know in advance.
Good. Because it’s not. It’s Mantra of the Cosmos, man. I didn’t set out to do that thing, you know? I set out to work with musicians I like, with whom I’m communicating.
Is everyone in on the writing of “Rip Off”?
Yes, James wrote the verse, Sean wrote the “such a pleasure” chorus, and Ryder wrote the over-the-top in-betweens and made it much more emotional and politically powerful. Shaun really just listened to what they’d written and freestyled from there with whatever he was feeling. He’s a conduit of a higher power from another planet.
“Yoko’s always going to be an influence to me with all that she accomplished before and after meeting John. She’s one of the greatest-ever living artists.”
We could do some whole thing on the influence of yours, James’, and Sean’s fathers. But what about the mothers? You surely were influenced by your mom, Maureen, more than maybe your dad.
Yes, she probably does have more to do with that because she never stopped dancing. She was never far from music. And she would probably have been in the studio boogieing to what I was doing now. And Linda [McCartney], as well. And Yoko—and I know people don’t want to hear this—she’s always going to be an influence to me with all that she accomplished before and after meeting John. She’s one of the greatest-ever living artists. I only met her once, but I had the chance to tell her that. She told me that my mum and dad were the only people who ever spoke with her during that whole thing. “Your mother said to me that if things ever got too heavy, I could come and stay at your house.” That made me really proud of my parents.
I know that you got an early drum kit from uncle Keith Moon, and that he gave you tips. Is there anything that you got, drumming-wise, from Ringo?
Not really. He just gave me one lesson at the top and told me to get on with it myself. He did come and watch me whenever he could; he was encouraging like that. Advice, though? Just to do my own thing, especially as I was really into punk. He gave me an X-Ray Spex record. At the same time, he gave me a copy of Man in the Hills from Burning Spear. He has super eclectic taste: he was into [Karlheinz] Stockhausen long before the other three guys heard of him. A lot of avant-garde stuff. He’s a big fan of Yoko, too.
How impressed were you that he stood up for you in regard to everything that’s happened with The Who and Roger Daltrey?
He didn’t say what was reported in the papers. He did say how disappointed he was at how I was treated after spending so much of my life devoted to that band.
“I did get fed up with being fired [from The Who] for something that I didn’t do. So I decided to come clean, and that caused even more problems. And now Pete is saying that he doesn’t know why I got fired, either.”
Where do you stand with The Who now? Certainly, you’ve shown honest emotion in regard to the situation on social media.
There are no grudges at all, or malice. But I did get fed up with being fired for something that I didn’t do. So I decided to come clean, and that caused even more problems, because I didn’t fuck it up [laughs]. And now Pete is saying in interviews that he doesn’t know why I got fired, either.
Townshend has been joking that he’s afraid of Daltrey firing him.
Six of us got it right, one got it wrong. And that isn’t unusual within The Who, because we don’t fucking rehearse. We just work it all out as we go along. There’s no time for anything regimented. How do you get called out for missing two beats? I’ve watched it over and over [on YouTube]. I don’t see it. It’s not there. So I’m not saying anything beyond the truth: I got fired over something I can’t find.
Do you feel as if your drumming within The Who has given you perspective as a drummer within Mantra?
I don’t know. I don’t listen to anything else very much beyond the stuff I’ve always loved, like Little Richard, Loretta Lynn, and Hawkwind. Conventions won’t be changed. It’s hard thinking about things when you’re trying to be something else. I don’t listen to much contemporary music because I don’t want that seeping into my head. I’m spending most of my time fucking about on my own ideas.
And I’ll be honest with you, I released “Rip Off” when I did to take the heat off of all the Who stuff. I figured putting out the news would lighten the load from the drama, even for a minute. Strategically, that’s not good for “Domino Bones,” as we also just released that 10 days prior. I hoped it would take the heat off, but it only did so for, like, 30 seconds. You don’t talk about a newer single when your other new single just came out. That’s not great strategy.
You mentioned that you had, like, 14 tracks ready for the Mantra album. Can you tell me the name of the album?
I shouldn’t, because I’ve been sworn not to—and I’m not even sure that this will wind up the title—but, well, yes, it’s… FL
